[prussia]

Gold at record high, and silver up huge today.

It will go higher soon.

[Second Talon]

Just like the stock market! It's riding a bubble that will expand forever!

:)

[Hans]

But all bubbles go pop.

[prussia]

Second Talon, on 16 November 2009 - 01:28 PM, said:

Just like the stock market! It's riding a bubble that will expand forever!

:)

Unlike the stock market there is actually economics that explains why it is rising.

[Hans]

I'm not an economist, but I was under the impression that the stock market relies on Kensian economics.

[Lynx Cat]

There are economics that explain the rise of the stock market as well. It's not fairy magic, Pru, it's science that's exactly as believable as the science that explains the rise and fall of gold, because it's the SAME science. Both stock papers and commodities such as gold have part of their price determined by intrinsic value (the raw usefulness of the commodity, of which precious metals actually have extremely little, versus the capital and revenue behind the stock); part determined by supply and demand; and part determined by things such as speculation and trust. If there was no speculation on gold, its price would not rise like that. It's exactly the same economic principles at work. Just because you don't like fiduciary assets (which sounds redundant to me; the way I see it, all assets are fiduciary to some degree) doesn't mean they, or their value, or the science explaining them aren't real. And at any rate, if they're not, then gold isn't either.

[prussia]

Lynx Cat, on 16 November 2009 - 05:35 PM, said:

There are economics that explain the rise of the stock market as well. It's not fairy magic, Pru, it's science that's exactly as believable as the science that explains the rise and fall of gold, because it's the SAME science. Both stock papers and commodities such as gold have part of their price determined by intrinsic value (the raw usefulness of the commodity, of which precious metals actually have extremely little, versus the capital and revenue behind the stock); part determined by supply and demand; and part determined by things such as speculation and trust. If there was no speculation on gold, its price would not rise like that. It's exactly the same economic principles at work. Just because you don't like fiduciary assets (which sounds redundant to me; the way I see it, all assets are fiduciary to some degree) doesn't mean they, or their value, or the science explaining them aren't real. And at any rate, if they're not, then gold isn't either.

Who said I did not like stocks? I am invested in stock. I am more invested in gold and silver because they are following the dollar. The stock market is rising now because it is based on possibilities of something good happening. Gold and silver are rising because the dollar is falling. One is based on hope and the other is based on straight economics. So I go with commodities for majority of my investments now...and I have been more than right and have made a lot of money. You all think I hold onto it forever I guess?

I am in green stocks too hoping that Obama passes some of his environmental stuff.

[Lynx Cat]

I'm sorry, maybe I went a little strawman on you because to me you sometimes sound like a Ron Paul fanboy toeing the "gold is the only wealth worth having" line. I'm glad to hear it's not the case... in part, anyways. It just bugs me when people dismiss financial (non-commodity) assets based on a mistrust of fiduciary money. That sounds so 1500's to me. The "paper market" is every bit as real, or not, as the commodities market. Stock rises because people believe in good things, yeah. The value of stock is based on faith, sure. So is the value of gold - it's based on the faith that gold will retain its value over time, and at a baser level, faith that people will even accept that gold of yours as an asset. In the end, the fact that gold even *is* something valuable is arbitrary and based on social convention - unlike other commodities like, I don't know, cattle, which has immediate and obvious uses. Sure, gold does tend to be more stable in the long run, but that's where the difference stops - and even then, the fact that you can even say that it's more stable stems from the fact that you're using the SAME economics to analyze gold and stocks. That's what I'm saying - you say "one is based on hope and the other is based on straight economics", and I say no, BOTH are based on hope and straight economics - in fact, the same economics. They might not be in the same situation right now, but they follow similar principles. Thus, dismissing stocks in principle and saying "gold is the only thing that can survive an economic crisis" kinda irks me out. But, from what you said above, all of this may not apply to you, so in that case consider this as just a general rant.

[prussia]

Lynx Cat, on 17 November 2009 - 04:28 AM, said:

I'm sorry, maybe I went a little strawman on you because to me you sometimes sound like a Ron Paul fanboy toeing the "gold is the only wealth worth having" line. I'm glad to hear it's not the case... in part, anyways. It just bugs me when people dismiss financial (non-commodity) assets based on a mistrust of fiduciary money. That sounds so 1500's to me. The "paper market" is every bit as real, or not, as the commodities market. Stock rises because people believe in good things, yeah. The value of stock is based on faith, sure. So is the value of gold - it's based on the faith that gold will retain its value over time, and at a baser level, faith that people will even accept that gold of yours as an asset. In the end, the fact that gold even *is* something valuable is arbitrary and based on social convention - unlike other commodities like, I don't know, cattle, which has immediate and obvious uses. Sure, gold does tend to be more stable in the long run, but that's where the difference stops - and even then, the fact that you can even say that it's more stable stems from the fact that you're using the SAME economics to analyze gold and stocks. That's what I'm saying - you say "one is based on hope and the other is based on straight economics", and I say no, BOTH are based on hope and straight economics - in fact, the same economics. They might not be in the same situation right now, but they follow similar principles. Thus, dismissing stocks in principle and saying "gold is the only thing that can survive an economic crisis" kinda irks me out. But, from what you said above, all of this may not apply to you, so in that case consider this as just a general rant.

I am just in gold more than anything right now because that is the best thing to do right now. I am sure it will change, but I have made a lot from gold lately. Everybody saw it coming with the inflation that is coming...it was just a matter of time. I do hope Obama's environmental stuff happens. One of my stocks is able to get a tax break for being green right now, and that is the first step of Obama's plan. I hope there is subsidies and other things for green stocks.

And listening to Ron Paul is not bad...it gives you insight into what people are doing with their money. How many people listen to him do you think? Millions probably? That is millions more buyers in gold and silver on top of the inflation that is happening. That is probably why it is so high now. I listen to everything and it has worked pretty good so far. I have had a few bad moves, but that is to be expected.